Walter the KJO Advocate, Part 2 - 02/23/2004
i should have kept in mind, that i'm not the first person to try to rebuke you, before i sent my e-mail. yes, i did include someone else' work to prove my point, because it doesn't matter if i wrote it or not, i'm not trying to impress anybody with my knowledge, what matters is that you have learned certain "facts" which you chose to defend no matter what, you say that people involved in writing the NIV had access to more and older manuscripts than the KJV writers, but let me ask you something: did you look over their shoulders as they "transleted" them? are you certain that all those manuscripts are genuine? did you read all of them for yourself? or you just lay your soul on the word of the "experts"? i know it sounds rather outrageos to expect from any person to go through all that trouble, but given the times we live in, the people involved in producing all modern versions, plus what is missing in those versions, should rise some suspicion don't you think? As for Mat 24:4 it reads:"And Jesus answered them, Take heed that no man deceive you." i was not implying that you call yourself Christ, but only that you take part in deception which is the "trade mark" of the last days. Of course i realize that those verses i've sent you do not amount to 1% of the whole scripture (you even did the math...) the point was to expose the signifficance of what's missing, you say all those words were not included in those older manuscripts, there are (aparently) 110 english versions alone, all translated from the Westcott & Hort greek texts and being at odds with each other, all except the KJV. i'm fully aware of KJV's "trouble points" (and i certainly do not worship "IT"! ) but that's only normal when translating. i have read your statement of beliefs, sadly though when i read your reply complaining about :"anger, hatred, vitriol(?), etc. from KJO supporters you sound a lot like a Catholic (ecumenist? and i'm not implying that you are, but only sound like in that very instance) where did you find hatred in my message? i was arogant i admit, but i don't hate you, must everybody who points to your error (right or wrong) automaticly be full of anger? as far as your blessing... you see what i mean... do you realy think that we, as living in times like this, do need to be even more open minded? i'm not including anybody's pages, the stuff is out there, i'm sure you know. Just think though, where does it stop? for this is far from over, there are gonna be "newer, and newer" versions more and more perverted, where do you draw the line? because "old manuscripts" may be in the very process of being created as we speak.Don't take this personally, i don't know you, you don't know me, writen Word Of God is all we have and i find your position as compromising, but i'm not gonna haunt you about it, just feel as my duty was to warn you. you have what appears to be some good work done on your website (although i honestly admit i kinda lost the desire to explore it deeper...for now at least...)
Safe in Christ forever, Walter.
CONTENDER MINISTRIES RESPONSE:
Hi again, Walter. Sadly, it appears you either chose not to read the bulk of my email response to you, or you chose to ignore certain things. We'll get back to those in a minute. First, you quoted Matthew 24:4, but you did not apparently read it in context. Anytime you're going to quote Scripture, you should read it in context. Matthew 24:4-5 reads, "And Jesus answered them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." You see, the verse you quoted goes with the next verse referring to false christs. We never made any such claim.
Of course we're going to defend facts! Facts are an element of truth! The facts surrounding the ancient manuscripts have been established by scholars in the field, not simply those who were on the translation committees for the NIV or NASB. I've seen photographic reproductions in books and on the internet, but have not seen them in person. Not being a scholar in Koine Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic, they wouldn't mean much to me. Did you peer over the shoulders of the KJV translators? No, you'd be pretty old if you had. :) Yet you trust them implicitly. Why do you trust the KJV translators so much more than the translators of the NIV or NASB? Is it because they worked off of newer manuscripts? Is it because they initially included the Catholic apocryphal books in the 1611 edition? Honestly, your stubborn refusal to accept the historical and archaeological facts behind the older and more reliable manuscripts displays a somewhat cult-like devotion to the KJV. Cult members are taught to not question anything about their beliefs, and they will commonly ignore established facts, as you have done.
Once again, I am not critical of the KJV. If I were, I would never use it. What I AM critical of is the movement by some to tear apart the body of Christ over a position that is baseless and without merit! I am critical of those who drive away unbelievers and scare new believers and attack long time believers because they read a newer translation of the Bible than you do. Let me ask you a question. Which edition of the KJV do you feel is most correct? The one published in 1611 contained the Apocryphal books from the Catholic Bible, and also had numerous errors in printing AND translation. In fact, it required several subsequent editions to address these translation errors (1612, 1613, 1616, 1638, 1660, 1683, 1727, 1762, 1769, and 1873). The KJV Bible used today is based on major revisions for the 1769 edition. So which do you consider more accurate? The 1611 edition, or the edition you and I currently use?
You also failed to point out what key doctrines are "lost" in the NIV and NASB. Is it because you know that no key doctrines or lost, or you simply don't know? I can assure you that no key doctrines are lost in those newer translations. As Christians, we both know that faith is a key part of our lives. Yet being a Christian does not mean we are required to put thought and reason on the shelf!! 1 Thessalonians 5:21 says, "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." Searching out facts and truth and using reason only strengthens our faith, it doesn't replace it or endanger it! Therefore, Walter, I encourage you to research this matter. I don't care if you continue to use the KJV as your Bible of choice, but I think if you actually look at the facts, you'll realize that the KJO argument is baseless and amounts to the needless strife that the Word of God instructs us to avoid.
Ben and Jennifer Rast